Go Jamboree!

gareth.ellis

Where'd athiests thread go?

**Posted:** Tue, 23 Aug 2005 21:08:33

Gareth Ellis
Leader@Trojan ESU and 1st Poynton Scouts

AberMary

Not sure about the disappearence of the thread Evilkern. Confused

However: I have never been able to work out the GGUK position on this - although it is no secrest that I am an athiest - but i'm not in a hurry to find out, just in case they get tricky and blue knickerish with me. And athieism is a belief system in itself.

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:23:19

Laura

I'm an agnostic, which means that I believe in a higher power, but I don't think it's definative. The promise says 'to love MY God anyway' so whether you have one or not it doesn't matter.

If the main leader is an atheist, perhaps another leader who is religious should take over that part of the meeting, just because everyone else is praying nothing stops you from standing there and planning in your head what you're going to have for dinner!

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:09:08

http://boredbriton.webs.com

mattdurbin

agnostic is allowed in scouting as well. Someone in my group put atheist as their religion and there was a big thing about it, so she changed it to agnostic.

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:39:21

The Extremly Wise and All Knowing Matt Durbin

Mr. Matthew Alexander Durbin esq.
ACSL 3rd Osterley Sea Scouts
GLMW Network Coordinator
GLMW WSJ2007 IST Coordinador
WSJ2007 JDT Member - Elements Team
and lots of other stuff

Colin

I deleted the athestists thread as i thought it provoke a very heated debate.

OK so they should be allowed in but the promise in Scouts does say "to God" Should there be a different promise?

How many people are true atheists anyway? Surely if you celebrate Christmas and call it Christmas you must be a Christian even if you don't go to church.

{it would be really usefull to have the topic review here now as i can't see all the posts}

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:00:59

Colin
Thailand WSJ 2002-3, Finnish Jamboree 2004, Eurojam 2005, Gloscamp 2006, 21st WSJ 2007, Essex08 Leader
SSAGO, Assistant Scout Leader, AESL - Nutty Badgers, AESL(YL) Gloucester, NYR (Gloucestershire)

The Architect

I have just checked and the only ability you have to delete a thread is if you started it and it was the first post in there.
Otherwise how did you do it? I know there are some bugs in the system but they are not so extreme that you would be able to delete a thread.

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:44:28

Forum Administrator
Remember if you have any problems I'm only a PM away Wink

Or e-mail on "architect -AT- gojamboree.org.uk"

AberMary

When i made my promise as a Guider (and young Leader) I classed myself as agnostic, which i guess means that the "God" in said promise was a higher power of some sort. Not so sure what would happen now, if i re-made my promise.

I go to church as a Guider (last time was Westminster Abbey, carrying the Cheif Guides Standard), because that is my duty to Guiding to provide Young people with the oppotunity to attend religious services. I would do the same if young people in my unit, wished to go to any other relious service in a Guiding context, that i was permitted to attend with them as their Guider. This doesn't generally happen tho!

This could all get very knotty.

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:06:21

Mxx
~BUCKETS 2010 Coordinator~Centurion Wolf ESU~1st Moredon Rainbows~Tunisia Explored 2008~21st WSJ UK Pavilion Team~
light sabre wheilding, mass catering, occasionally scouting, welly peg owning, hardcore guiding Fearless Guider

Colin

correct. I made the thread and then deleted it whilst my post was still the first as i thought it would become a headed discussion

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:40:49

Colin
Thailand WSJ 2002-3, Finnish Jamboree 2004, Eurojam 2005, Gloscamp 2006, 21st WSJ 2007, Essex08 Leader
SSAGO, Assistant Scout Leader, AESL - Nutty Badgers, AESL(YL) Gloucester, NYR (Gloucestershire)

Biscit

	The Architect wrote:
	I have just checked and the only ability you have to delete a thread is if you started it and it was the first post in there.

Which is what he did.

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:39:47

gareth.ellis

The scout promise is to 'do my duty to god and the queen' (we're talking the ye olde version here...i don't know the new politically correct version) so i guess you are doing your duty to god, if you don't believe then you're doing nothing therefore fulfilling your duty!

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:37:53

Gareth Ellis
Leader@Trojan ESU and 1st Poynton Scouts

Colin

**Posted:** Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:25:55

Colin
Thailand WSJ 2002-3, Finnish Jamboree 2004, Eurojam 2005, Gloscamp 2006, 21st WSJ 2007, Essex08 Leader
SSAGO, Assistant Scout Leader, AESL - Nutty Badgers, AESL(YL) Gloucester, NYR (Gloucestershire)

provenance

okay so, if I declare myself atheist, i'm not aloud to be a leader? Thats absolute horse shat. Our scout group is about as religious a dead leaf. We stil say the promise all the same and yadda yadda, but we never pray or anything like that. If I knew my "religion" or lack there of would limit me in the things I can do in scouting, I might have never joined. I'm not even sure what else to say as i'm kinda..flustered atm. Ugh.

edit: Just read the rest of the discusion in the intro section. POR can kiss my arse Smile

So if I lied and said I was christian, I could be a leader, but then I'd be lying to scouts, and myself. Why couldn't I just change the promise to fit me and say "to myself, and the queen" etc. I mean, at times I think I MIGHT believe in a higher power, but that changes from day to day. I really just believe iun myself, cause if anythings gunna happen, I gotta make it happen myself.

**Posted:** Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:36:50

duct tape is like the force, it has a dark side, a light side, and it holds the universe together!

gareth.ellis

You can think of it what you will, but the rules in england anyway stand as such. I must admit due to the shortage of leaders we were very annoyed to find this to be true as we had two people willing to take warrents out but who were refused because they put athiest down as religion. As a matter of their personal stance they refused to lie about their religion to be given a warrent.

**Posted:** Fri, 26 Aug 2005 21:18:48

Gareth Ellis
Leader@Trojan ESU and 1st Poynton Scouts

Merry

there should not be anything about what people believe because guiding and scouting is international and people all ove the world have different views and it shouldnt matter what they were otherwise there wouldnt be that many guides or scouts. sorry if that point has been made, i ust wanted to be clear in my mind that it had been!

**Posted:** Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:37:31

Go fourth and multiply

*Harlequin Ranger*
*Canterbury City Ranger*
*8th Canterbury Brownies*
*Hobbit*
*Current Holder of Salvador*

provenance

	Merry wrote:
	there should not be anything about what people believe because guiding and scouting is international and people all ove the world have different views and it shouldnt matter what they were otherwise there wouldnt be that many guides or scouts. sorry if that point has been made, i ust wanted to be clear in my mind that it had been!

agreed. We wouldn't be scouts if we were that biased. I mean, if every OTHER religion can be a part of it, why cant atheists? It's just a differant belief. They dont believe in god, it's their choice.

**Posted:** Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:46:15

duct tape is like the force, it has a dark side, a light side, and it holds the universe together!

Go Jamboree!

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